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What do you think is a suitable Engineer class limit?
Zero 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
One 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Two 36%  36%  [ 8 ]
Three 36%  36%  [ 8 ]
Four 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No Limit 27%  27%  [ 6 ]
Total votes: 22
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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 13:27 
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Crunchy Nut
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I can't in any way agree that three engineers is ever needed, nor can I agree that a wrangled mini sentry should be three rockets worth of "hard" to take down (6 for a normal wrangled sentry). I also don't believe that a reduction in engineer slot by 1 would have any great impact on people playing here.

Sniper limit silly? Perhaps - I wouldn't mind it being increased, I certainly think it's silly that less snipers than engineers are allowed.

Teleporters are useful, I use them if they're available... and they would still be available with a class limit of 2. When I play Soldier (which is most of the time), I will try to leave the teleporter for slower classes if I see they need it. I would personally love a no engineers night, but I do understand why some people might not.

Change class to Engineer to remove sappers? I know it's done, but it shouldn't be argued as if it's a core game mechanic. Pyro's can still use the home wrecker anyway... But you know, I would support blacklisting the wrangler - I still think three engineers would be overkill, but it wouldn't be quite as much overkill.

There is only one good reason to play on Fragmasters, and that is that 07 has no players on it. That is a horrible horrible server, and I sincerely hope that 07 never adopts a no limit setting, because you can see the outcome.

Veen, what if I don't want to play medic? Most of the arguments here are about who would be able to play what they want... I don't want to feel like I have to change class just to deal with engineers.


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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 14:05 
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Balls plays lot of solly. If im wrong correct me.

If you jump a lot on the map. And fly a lot, it can be irritating if you keep getting shot by sentries.

My question to you is. Whats really the problem with engies except from they get hardto destroy without uber?

We play lazytown for years, engie is a must class.

Why do you dislike it?

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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 14:12 
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Tf2 is a team effort game. If you only like 1 class, it can be hard.

Especially if you wanna get passed sentries.

If i have that problem i change class and deal with the challenge ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 14:12 
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Quote:

We need engies, i dont understand this topic at all.

Engie less day? If you do that im out.... Its ridiculous.....
Couldn't agree more.

I already try and avoid Wednesdays as the balance is ruined.


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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 14:19 
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Quote:
wow, once again people contribute by making suggestions and once again they get shot down
It wasn't much of a suggestion and it certainly wasn't a discussion. Parva said he already has done it. Tbh I don't think Balls has thought about the bigger effect of this. Tbh there shouldn't be any limit.


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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 14:26 
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(>Nutter<)
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Quote:
Quote:
wow, once again people contribute by making suggestions and once again they get shot down
It wasn't much of a suggestion and it certainly wasn't a discussion. Parva said he already has done it. Tbh I don't think Balls has thought about the bigger effect of this. Tbh there shouldn't be any limit.
I dont like classlimits. But having 5 snipers doesnt help. Look at fm.

So sniperclass is a must.

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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 14:27 
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Crunchy Nut
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I do play a lot of Solly, and I jump a lot. I actually make a lot of attempts at taking out engi stuff too, both from front and from spawn. I like that aspect to a degree.

The honest reason I don't like Engineers? The sentry is an aimbot that provides an additional "pair of eyes" that in all rights shouldn't be there. It's like a bonus player, and takes no direct skill from the Engineer in order to do what it does. I like classes where you have to aim - which is why I also dislike M1 Pyros and Stickyspam Demos.

But I've tried to keep my personal OPINIONS separate to this request, because if it were my choice I'd turn off random crits, turn off damage spread, turn off bullet spread, reduce maximum players and have 1 engineer maximum. But that would just be MY perfect game. I also think that the Gunslinger (for Mini Sentry) is stupidly overpowered, but I know lots of people enjoy playing with it...

I'm trying to suggest things that I think would make a better game for everyone, or at least the majority of players.

And Veen, I still disagree than engi is a "must". You don't need one for a good game - BUT, if one side has one then the other side kinda does too.

I know you guys have played Lazytown for years, and I'm a relatively new player to join... But that doesn't mean I'm not crazy about lazy! Due to family and work, I rarely get online until later - but I try, and if I'm available while the game is going on you can bet I'll be trying to join.

And if you want to talk about players - I know of at least one player who will not join until the numbers get to about 20 or below, due to the engis, and I know that Banjo has left games before and told me that he couldn't be arsed to deal with engis over and over again, because he doesn't find it fun.

JJ, can you describe to me the "bigger effect" because I honestly think the effect will be a better, more enjoyable, more competitive game.

And umm, if you look at FM with the engis too? That's the main reason I don't play there unless I have to. Sniper has to at least AIM in order to get a kill.


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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 14:39 
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Banjo also plays solly. Maybe when you jump a lot around courtyard and point 3 its annoying.

Maybe its just you, because this is the first time i hear this about engies.

Lazytown needs engies, needs dispensers and teleporters.

Team up, destroy the sentries is the advice i can give.

Lazytown without engies isnt lazytown.


Remember its a team game. We cant get the server running just the way you like it most.

Engie is a must!

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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 14:54 
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As veen says.

We have been playing lazy for years. And this has not been mentioned before. I guess it is now due to all the jumping. Lazy needs engies it needs teleports. I don't play jumping classes so maybe it's more important for me and other non jumping players/classes.


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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 15:15 
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Engineers Limit :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Think hard guys here. With the exception of Speed (And JJ when he is pissed) What Engineers ?????????????????? I have played here a fair time and its not a limit we want its a minimum if anything we need to change. If its not a full server (Which is most nights) its a long long way from spawn to Four (Faw is your from Wigan) I think a rethink would be suited to this subject.

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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 15:29 
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Indeed Mary :)


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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 16:02 
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Crunchy Nut
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Just because something has been done one way for a long time, it doesn't mean that it's the best way, or that someones suggestion should not be considered.

Veen, yes I do play Soldier, so does Banjo. Banjo also plays a lot of other classes - including Medic and Demoknight a fair bit. Volti rarely plays soldier and doesn't jump around hardly at all. Paarthursnacks mostly plays sniper and scout. Luzvi does admittedly play soldier a lot too. We all find these annoyances with the sentries, and I'm not saying that those players will all agree with me 100%, but please please stop trying to make it look like I just want things my way.

Veen if you insist that I'm posting this because I play Soldier can we also say that JJ is only defending because he plays Engi. Can't we just forget who plays what?

Besides, the argument that things have always been that way falls down a bit when you consider all the new items that have been added. When you first started playing, there wouldn't be Mini Sentries, Wranglers, Short Circuit, Frontier Justice, Jag.


I had a fairly long debate with Astroman on this topic, and we agreed on some points and disagreed on others. He made the point that overly-defensive Pyros make engineers even more powerful, and that perhaps the problem is made worse by players who cant be bothered to attack and just spam from safe places.

One suggestion which came up between us, and has been mentioned here too, is blacklisting the wrangler. I'm starting a separate poll to see what people think about that too, which you can view here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1720


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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 16:39 
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Balls, dont take my post as offence at you.

I can come across direct and hard, but its because english isnt my number 1 language and i dont spend hours to think how to post. (Yes joke about that mary :D )

I do understand you and i think you are 100% correct to suggest this, why not.

I understand, and you are right, that there are new weapons that makes it different then years ago.

Its just my personal opinion.

If im in spawn, and we are capping 4 or 5 at that moment, and there is no teleporter we are screwd.

We have no way we can get there as fast, to capp 5 or capp 4, or even defend.

When im in spawn, and im a LAZYnutter i want to have a tele as close as battlefield as possible
- walking is a waste of time......


When im almost dead, i need a dispenser, i dont wanna walk to garage because im fighting.
If i walk to garage and have to wait for 2 medicpacks = waste of time

If im out of bullets, i need to walk to garage and wait for couple of bullets....


I like the wrangler. But i also understand that if there is a very good engy that knows how to use it, it can be very hard to destroy.

So maybe its better to focus on blacklist the wrangler.

Also look to promoot the medic, promoot ubercharge. If we coöperate, and have enough medics, engies are quitting fast because they cant handle the flow of ubers.


So try look at the solution, not the problem.

If the problem is an engie, you have a few options.

1 - become a spy and destroy them all

2 - get some ubers up and destroy them all. Become a medic yourself, or help a medic destroying.

Always good to have a discussion. Dont be mad :P

Engie is important for a map as lazytown.

I do understand, it can be annoying if being in air, a sentry autoaims and shoots you out of the sky.

But having a non engie night is not an option if you ask me, i would be shocked if that happend.

Hope to see you soon.

Everyone you mentioned, i hope they get on this site, and register for the friday event. Hope to see you there.

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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 17:00 
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Whole Nut

Joined: 03 Sep 2010 20:05
Posts: 679
ok guys and ladies.....


not to go too far from subject but what classes would u like to see more or less off?

maybe a multi-option poll where u can choose all classes and what limits you would like to see?


Last edited by (SC)Jace on 12 Aug 2014 17:34, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Purge the Engineers
PostPosted: 12 Aug 2014 17:01 
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Votes are saying a limit of 2 at the moment, will see how it plays for a day or two and put it back if needs be. And yes, I did quit running everything but I'm still doing a bit of admin stuff for them, particularly as my successor is learning the ropes. :)

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