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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2009 13:22 
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When I order a pizza when im at a restaurant I always eat it with my fork and knife :( Somehow it tastes so much better. (Also I dont want to burn my hands)

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PostPosted: 28 Mar 2009 13:40 
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I once used a fork and a knife and fingers to eat a pizza. The slices I cut were very big, the pizza was very hot, so I used the fork to lift and hold the wide part of the slice while I guided the tip towards my mouth with fingers. The complexity of the process made the pizza even more tasty :)

P.S. Feel free to get back on topic when you will. (We were talking about engineers in TF2)

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PostPosted: 04 May 2009 21:17 
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I think there is an issue to battle against... when atacking, one point left to go, the engies are concentrating in the garage OR the point it self, but never concentrating on BOTH sides. I think it's a good idea to put a centry gun in the tunel - just in case.

And - when the teleports are destroyed, and you are a different class, when you die, change class to do some "smacking for fun with the wrench", like i do, the teleports (upgrade them in the spawn). 15 men walking on foot toward the battlefield looses 2 (or 3 in the worst case scenarios) control points.


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PostPosted: 04 May 2009 21:46 
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What the hell, we were talking about pizza!

Look this is my alltime favorite pizza: Pizza Carbonara

Image

So much meat and egg goodness! Makes me very hungry indeed.

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There is always a Torn in garage.

If you say "plz" because it is shorter than please, then I'll say "no" because it is shorter than yes.


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 01:31 
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One thing i didn't see..

BULD DISPENSER FIRST! DAMNIT

It will provide you with an instant 25 metal AND regenerate when you build and whack at your sentry (or got time to look for more metal)

If you have ever tried sudden death, as engy, you know how horrible you will fail as engy if you build a sentry first.
Sudden death got no ammo or health boxes and you can not reenter spawn for more.
Wich means, you only got the metal on you and what you get from your dispenser.
So building a sentry first = only a level 1 with a half upgrade and nothing to repair/refill it with.


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 01:52 
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Normally I would agree with you z4nd, but when your team is rushing for point 3, I'd really rather have a sentrygun on the back ramps up first.

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There is always a Torn in garage.

If you say "plz" because it is shorter than please, then I'll say "no" because it is shorter than yes.


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 08:13 
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I disagree with you, z4nd, and not just partially, but I disagree completely including about the sudden death mode.

Strictly talking about lazytown the reasons I build dispensers (except when going in the enemy's garage) are completely different. Level 1 sentry isn't that good when it comes to defending point 2 and 4, a healthy heavy, soldier, demoman or even pyro can do better defense and can survive longer, that is why I choose dispensers for point 1 and 2.
When it comes to point 3 during the time your team is caping it, the best thing you can do is to build a sentry. It gives you that vital additional lead quantity in the enemies that can kill a pesky scout, an uncloaking spy, a sniper / engie or medic who still don't know what is happening, it can reduce the health of offensive classes enough so a single rocket or bomb can kill them.
Most of the times point 3 takes some time to be conquered I try to build a dispenser between the ramps whenever somebody says "point 3 is clear lets go!" so my team's attack will be a bit more enduring provided with ammo and health for the medics. I guess this means I follow your rule after all :roll:

Any way, long story short:
- dispensers for points 1 & 2 and the area between 2 and 3, so your teammates survive longer
- sentries for point 3 and the garage, so your enemies live less

I am sorry to have to tell you this, z4nd, but you suck at Sudden Death mode :(
First of all playing engie during sudden death is somewhat retarded, this mode activates when your teams are too slow at killing themselves. If you have been playing engie switch classes, your buildings are already gone.
If for some strange reason you think that your surprisingly dumb choice will be surprising enough to make an impact, than you still have to go with a sentry first. In Meet the engineer he says it pretty straight - he solves practical problems ... using guns, and when guns aren't good enough he uses more guns ;) Luring by shooting people to look at you while they enter the sentry's range and die in the crossfire. This and the metal provided by their corpse is what is going to win the match, not the 10-20 seconds you dedicate to your dispenser just to get some more metal. If I am not mistaken during sudden death there are ammo boxes but they don't respawn right? As an engie you are entitled by birthright to that single ammo box, having it will allow you to build both a sentry and a dispenser. Speeding up a dispenser alone (I hope you don't play with multiple engies on sudden death) takes 10 seconds, way too long time. By the time it is complete there will be a heavy & medic combo behind the corner probably. If you go for the last ammo box and don't speed your dispenser it will take 20 seconds to build, probably will be destroyed before finished. On the other hand a sentry can go up in 5 seconds, you'll have the sentry, the ammobox and will be building dispenser for the same amount of time you'd be finishing the dispenser using your strategy, do the math.



This is all very interesting to read if you like words. If you like bullets I suggest we try a 1 on 1 arena match with engies ... or on lazytown if you want.
No points will be proven just for the giggles :lol:

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 08:17 
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Agree (w/ celestial at least), but then you still have to have a dispenser on 2 to run back to. if you have absolutely nothing then you need the disp first...

In my opinion the biggest problem on lazy with engeneers is that they sometimes spend forever with getting their teles up, and that certain people ALWAYS want to place every single piece of metal at the same place... for instance building 2 teleporters right next to each other to make their destruction twice as easy.


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 08:39 
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There always is garage ammo box and fallen weapons. Each fallen weapon is enough for a new dispenser you know.
But I agree with you about building stuff too close. "Diversification of risk" isn't an empty concept. You aren't completely innocent in this field, Asmo. I've seen you putting a second sentry on the front left ramp, I don't know how much more ubers will you need before you find out how useless it is. I try spamming voice commands like "go go go", "move up", "no" and even shaking my mouse sideways vigorously while standing on the place where the engie wants to build his sentry. Doesn't help much :(

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 12:02 
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You aren't completely innocent in this field, Asmo. I've seen you putting a second sentry on the front left ramp
Happened a couple of times yes, if I get kill-horny :P but usually I'm the first of the 2 if there are two standing there.
The most important not to be next to each other is in my opinion teleporters, or putting the dispensers too close to the sg. A destroyed SG from a normal uber attack isn't really that big of an issue if you still have a lvl 3 disp around...


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 19:23 
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Itzkin, I don't play sudden death anymore. It was when i started and didn't know alot about TF2.

But i learned it that way, dispenser first and i'll keep building it first.

You do some have good arguments against it, but nothing worse for me than two engies in point 3, building their own sentry first and both running back to the garage for the 100 metal. It just doesn't work for me. (could be cool to restrict the dispenser to only give metal to yourself :P)

oh and btw, fallen weapons is a unrelieable variable, wich you should never count on. It's good when do get to pick up a weapon, but it's not something i would take into consideration.

and edit again..
The engy movie..don't even go there, you can only have one sentry gun and if you can't upgrade it, anything is fast or got health enough to take it down alone with no effort.


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 19:29 
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When attacking point 3, sg first. After point 3 is cleared there should be plenty of metal about to build a tele on 3. I try and get them up to lvl 3 using dispenser on 2. If I'm the only engi then a dispenser on 3 is very important for the team.
From point 3 onwards the important placement is the sg. If a pyro is spy checking your gear will be safe on 3. This leaves you to build a level 3 sg elsewhere and the move the other stuff after.
I must say i'm guilty of placing an sg next to another on the front left ramp. But, sometimes it is very effective, it just depends what combo there is on the opposite team.


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 20:04 
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I must say i'm guilty of placing an sg next to another on the front left ramp. But, sometimes it is very effective, it just depends what combo there is on the opposite team.
I wonder what kind of combo are you referring to? Do you mean no ubers just kritz or no medics at all? I don't see in which situations 2 sentries at the same place would do any good, whether it is point 3, garage or point 2-4.

z4nd I was just ilustrating my thought with a quote. I wasn't refering to the army of sentries, but to the engineer's shotgun. People often forget that besides building engies can shoot and even a level1 sentry can be of much help in 1v1 encounters.

It seems we agree on the other parts of the engie lore :)

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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 21:04 
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There's 1 thing I always try to do first: Run up to point 3 and dump a lvl 3 teleport in a corner. If it stays up, you win. If it goes down, Just build up the sg's.

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There is always a Torn in garage.

If you say "plz" because it is shorter than please, then I'll say "no" because it is shorter than yes.


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PostPosted: 23 Jun 2009 22:19 
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I just mean 2 good players, eg mamba and sponge. There is no point having 2 sgs then. But, there are many times when 1 sg may get destroyed while the other finishes the attackers off. Also pyros have a job to get up the ramp when there are 2 lvl 3 sgs up.


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